i mean what part of Braveheart does the Scottish (also British) say lets kick British ass ? . i have been reading about Braveheart of yahoo. and many Americans say British time and time Again. are you guys really that thick did u even listen to the movie ????
Your question is a little confusing. It sounds like you are complaining that Americans are calling the English "Brits" on a discussion board about the movie Braveheart. Not having seen the discussion, it is impossible to see what the context was, but I imagine it was a casual conversation going on. Of course, all of the countries of the UK were not united then, so there would have been no Great Britain yet, but in a casual conversation I can see how people might revert to what is familiar to them and there is some basis for them doing so. My brother-in-law is from England and calls himself a Brit. Of course, the Britons actually pre-date the Angles (from which the name England was eventually created). Some Britons were absorbed by the Gaelic tribes on the northern part of the island and eventually became Scots. Others left the island and formed Brittany in France. The Romans called the island Britannia and their occupation was over a thousand years before William Wallace. The term Britain did not just come from thin air. There is a very long history associated with it or its derivative.
I applaud your effort to educate others that those people living on the southern part of the island would have referred to themselves as English at the time, but almost every country’s people call themselves multiple names. Who knows, maybe a few Saxons whose ancestors survived William the Conqueror still referred to themselves that way two hundred years later. Some might have even referred to themselves as Brits. I am from the southern United States and throughout our history we have been referred to as confederates, southerners, rebels, grays and the region as Dixie. I have seen many references to the land of Dixie for a time period when the term had yet to be used. That doesn’t upset me. It is an easily recognized term to describe a certain area of the United States.
Maybe you should be upset with the Aussie who directed the film about the gross historical inaccuracies concerning the revolutionary Scot. ;0)
February 20th, 2010 at 8:26 am
I don’t think many of them know the differences between Britain, England and the United Kingdom
References :
British and Welsh!
February 20th, 2010 at 8:38 am
There are a lot of historic inacuracies in hollywood movies.
870 years before, or 427 years after, and they may have been correct referring to us as British.
Only occasionally in the middle ages Britain sometimes referred to herself as Britammia (sc!). The Welsh called themselves, Bryth y Brithan, or Briths of Brithan. I somehow seriously doubt though that there were many Brithan’s up there to fight, mostly English.
The WWII submarine film U-571 was also very inaccurate as it was portrayed to be American not British.
When it comes down to it though, they are just hollywood movies, and as such fictional, not fact.
AZ: To throw a few spanners into the works…
The Queens official title isn’t actually the Queen of England, even though that is what she uses and the title she is commonly known by and appears on money etc. Her official title is the Queen of Great Britain amongst many others such as Emperess of Pakistan, India etc ad infinium.
Northern Ireland wasn’t added. It used to be Great Britain and Ireland (the whole of it), until the republic gained independence and that tiny bit in roughly the East NE corner wished to stay as part of the UK and was the remainder of left over bit. I think now N.I. now has a lot more autonomy with power sharing and self-governance.
Now on to the big spanner. The United Kingdom isn’t even technically a country and never has been. It’s a corporation! Great Britain or Britannia also know as Britammia and other things in the past such as Albion is a gerographic area and has at times also been a nation. England, Scotland and Wales have also been nations in the past but now only administrative areas.
If you delve very deep there is evidence that Great Britain owns the US! Many have reason to believe that King George was there at the declaration of independence and a deal had been struck in private and that King George had financed both sides of the war. There are also theories that a large percentage of tax receipts from the original colonies all go directly to the British treasury, and that Britain runs the IRS. Further, there is evidence that the Vatican owns Great Britain. This is getting deep into conspiracy though.
I guess this has confused the situation even more
I love the sarcasm btw.. pretty good for an American. If I didn’t know better I’d say you were also a limey like me. I get confused as well as to the status of our corporation/country especially now after the treasonous Lisbon Treaty has come in. If we were ever recently a country, then we may not be any more. I especially get confused trying to remember whether the Isle of Man, Channel Islands etc are part of the UK or not, or whether they’re crown protectorates or something else entirely.
Gizmo - Didn’t the Romans originally split it up? I.e. they labelled anything North of Hadrians Wall the useless bit and anything South the good bit?
References :
February 20th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Because England is perceived as the dominant nation within Britain, most Americans falsely equate British with English. I am guilty myself from time to time. We tend to think of the Scots, the Welsh, and the N. Irish as separate people, even though they technically are British. But many Scots, Welsh, and N. Irish don’t even consider themselves British. I’m sure I don’t need to tell YOU that.
And it’s only a f$@#ing movie. Stop getting all riled up over it.
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February 20th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Lets see:
Britain, the main Island
England, southern part of the main Island, Scotland to the north. Wales, the little pregnant part in the west.
The United Kingdom. Main Island of Britain, with the north Eastern part of Ireland. Easy really.
Now, do you know the difference between a Yankee and Southener? Are you aware most Americans are not Yanks?
Can you point to South Dakota on a map? Do you know its capital? Do you know who the Dakota are?
Do you know which state is the Sooner state? Why is it called that?
See we can go off all day about georgraphy. I hate these threads. I can name every capital city in Europe, point out every country and tell you if they are NATO or not. I can do this for Asia, South and Central America, the Caribbean and a good chunk of Oceana. Africa is a bit tougher, but I can throw down 75% of it. Can you? Doubt it. Easy to talk shyte because most Americans don’t know where most countries are. Do you know why? We have to spend so much time integrating folks from around the world who move here, we can leave no child behind so we have to dumb down school to allow all kids, no matter what speed they learn to feel accepted in a normal class room setting. Too many liberal programs, that we copied from European countries. In school we learn world history, the history of our country and the state we live in. Did you know that the Japanese do not teach their kids about the Raping of Nanking, or the atrocities in Korea before and during WWII? Do you know that they do not teach their kids about Pearl Harbor? But they teach them how evil we were for nuking them? They started it, we finished it.
So these ignorant fucking threads can still get posted and spread your ridiculous bias and overt generalization and perpetuate stereotypes. You are probably a snot nosed kid, destined for a life on the Dole. And knowing this is your future, you choose to slag off on a country that has had your back on more occassions then not.
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February 20th, 2010 at 10:21 am
I live in Georgia…if you called me a Yank you would be wrong but I wouldn’t have a seizure over it. For God’s sake calm down your Highness.
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February 20th, 2010 at 11:03 am
It’s less annoying than the other way round (English to describe British). I’m guessing it’s because it’s a British government and British Army but most British people Americans meet are English and call themselves that, which they can if they want, but will may also say things like "in England we drive on the left" which gives a false impression of England being an international country and equals Britain; people in the rest of the UK are more likely to say "in the UK/Britain we drive on the left" since "in Wales we drive on the left" sounds a bit ridiculous.
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February 20th, 2010 at 11:53 am
Sounds like you’re claiming that in the movie "Braveheart" they referred to the English as British. They didn’t, but apparently that’s not what your beef is.
Confusion by Americans on what exactly is the difference between British and English.
I do well know the difference, but let’s just see if we can analyze where the confusion may come from.
We have three separate countries. England, Scotland, and Wales. Now, they come together and form Great Britain. And then you add Northern Ireland, which isn’t actually a country but more of a territory within a country, although they use that country’s name within their own name, and you have the United Kingdom.
Then you have the Queen of England, even though technically she’s the head of 16 independent sovereign states known as the Commonwealth. One of those Commonwealths would include the United Kingdom, which is in fact three distinct countries, England, Scotland, and Wales, as well as Northern Ireland, which as I alerted to, isn’t considered a country. She also holds each crown separately and equally in a shared monarchy, whatever that actually means.
And from her reign, she became Queen of 25 other countries who got independence from Britain (not to be confused with the U.K. or England, even though she is listed as the "Queen of England"). And she is the sovereign of 32 individual nations which later became republics, although they’re not part of Comnonwealth, or the U.K., or Great Britain, or England. So the Queen of England (not Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland) became Queen of 25 other countries when they gained their "independence" from Britain (that of course would be England, Wales, and Scotland, but not Northern Ireland). How does one become the Queen of another country when they’ve gained their independence from you?
So in a sense, yours seems to be the only country, or area, or whatever it is that you want to call it, in the entire world which incorporates three separate countries into your governing class, as well as another large territory which in turn it becomes the U.K. However, there are other territories which remain part of the Commonwealth, albeit not a part of England, or Great Britain. And then there are republics which do not appear to be a part of England, Great Britain, the U.K. or the Commonwealth, yet the Queen is the head of state for all of them, even though her title is the Queen of England.
Gee Einstein, I have no idea why anyone who’s not British (or is it English) would have a difficult time understanding the utter complexity of the ruling web that is Great Britain, the U.K., the Commonwealths, or the Republics which lie under your Queen’s rule. Apparently, as non British subjects, and Americans to boot, we’re supposed to all just understand this completely, and according to you, failure to do so results in your opinion of us being "thick".
And apparently this all stems from your beef with Americans, referring to a movie that for all intents and purposes, is a horribly inaccurate depiction from a historical standpoint. But your beef is with Americans incorrectly using the term "British".
Well, pardon us.
Edit: Hey John10001. Thanks for the additional information. Now I’m even more confused! And hey! Who doesn’t appreciate a little sarcasm here and there.
Just found it odd that a Brit would expect us Yanks to fully understand the inner structure of who exactly is bunched with whom, and who rules what when it comes to England, Great Britain, and the U.K. Especially considering your set up appears to be the only one of its kind in the world, to my knowledge. But I’m always willing to learn!
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February 20th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Done to death.
Britannia was a geographic term for the area to the south of the island. The north was called Caledonia.
English and British was used interchangeably for hundreds of years. Scotland wasn’t.
Scots (some of them anyway) calling themselves British is only something fairly recent. Some people cannot understand this.
References :
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/scotbrit1.htm
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/britain/britain.htm
February 20th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Your question is a little confusing. It sounds like you are complaining that Americans are calling the English "Brits" on a discussion board about the movie Braveheart. Not having seen the discussion, it is impossible to see what the context was, but I imagine it was a casual conversation going on. Of course, all of the countries of the UK were not united then, so there would have been no Great Britain yet, but in a casual conversation I can see how people might revert to what is familiar to them and there is some basis for them doing so. My brother-in-law is from England and calls himself a Brit. Of course, the Britons actually pre-date the Angles (from which the name England was eventually created). Some Britons were absorbed by the Gaelic tribes on the northern part of the island and eventually became Scots. Others left the island and formed Brittany in France. The Romans called the island Britannia and their occupation was over a thousand years before William Wallace. The term Britain did not just come from thin air. There is a very long history associated with it or its derivative.
I applaud your effort to educate others that those people living on the southern part of the island would have referred to themselves as English at the time, but almost every country’s people call themselves multiple names. Who knows, maybe a few Saxons whose ancestors survived William the Conqueror still referred to themselves that way two hundred years later. Some might have even referred to themselves as Brits. I am from the southern United States and throughout our history we have been referred to as confederates, southerners, rebels, grays and the region as Dixie. I have seen many references to the land of Dixie for a time period when the term had yet to be used. That doesn’t upset me. It is an easily recognized term to describe a certain area of the United States.
Maybe you should be upset with the Aussie who directed the film about the gross historical inaccuracies concerning the revolutionary Scot. ;0)
References :